Ludicrous Speed - Hacker Brushless Style

Swami · 04-30-2003, 11:09 PM

After some initial pitfalls, I have my new brushless system up and working. Hacker C40 8s + Hacker Master Car Sport.

The initial problems centered around uncharged batteries, and having a current limiter set at 30 amps. Removing both those problems, and what you have defies explanation by mere words. I was totally not prepared for that much power.

On six cells, it was the fastest thing I have ever run, period. Wheelies were on par with a P-94 13x2. Eight cells, and it was NUTTY amounts of speed. Rolling wheelies at over 10mph. In a run down the street, you could pop the front up over and over without slowing down! It was crazy. Eight cells is the sweet spot in my opinion, at least on the Stampede.

10-cells: It was like in that movie Space Balls where they go to "Ludicrous Speed". Its just completely nuts. I was unable to get it up to full speed, for lack of adequate braking distance! I almost trashed the R/C trying to brake down from what was around 35mph (not even close to top speed). It just snapped off a body post and sent the body washer and pin flying. I counted myself as very lucky. You could get rolling wheelies at OVER TWENTY MPH!! INSANE!!! A full throttle blip at 10mph would catapault the truck off of the ground, using the wheeliebar as a lever. Most of the 10-cell run I kept the throttle at less than 25% and control of the throttle was crucial to not destroying the truck.

This thing is going to chew that Pede up like a rag-doll.

Runtimes were about like with a 20 turn motor (Frankenstinger) due to the higher efficiency.

On the downside, which was minor, it does cog. Cogging is only annoying when you are trying to get the car moving from a dead stop, but you DONT want to hit the full throttle. This was not a problem for me on 6-cells, I would just give it a good amount of gas, and go. With 8-10 cells though, I didn't have the balls to hit full throttle from a dead stop. I think the results would be very poor, as in, much breakage of parts, plus I still had the slipper locked, so that would be DUMB. Anyway, what it does it kind of hesitate and then SLAM some power down. So as you pull the trigger into the 3-5% range, you get a sudden micro-wheelie and then its fine. Using an RX pack will solve that problem, but I got the (very expensive) Master Car Sport controller because I thought I would be able to avoid an RX pack. For those of you looking out there, I would not advise getting this speed controller, as there are cheaper ones out there. You could still get the Hacker motor though.

I will be videoing tons of this. I will show you guys exactly what cogging looks like in the Pede. Even though I've heard it explained a million times, I still didn't get exactly what it would be like. In short, its not like a big deal, but its not perfect either.

I'll put together something more formatted for the BL FAQ soon.
If anyone has any questions or whatever, shoot, and I'll do my best to answer them.

Swami

Greenboy · 05-01-2003, 12:05 AM

Heh, Id like to see "Wall of Death II: Hacker Attacker" or something to that effect

BeeniDAmeeni · 05-01-2003, 06:23 AM

See, that's the thing. If I do get a brushless, it's gonna have to be the Novak, because I'm not electrically/mechanically minded, so to say

But I would love to see the videos.

Quote:

It was like in that movie Space Balls where they go to "Ludicrous Speed".

lol I love that movie, got it on DVD somewhere....

P.S.
Swami, I got the vids to work on my school computer file, so I can watch them w/o the problems we were talking of earlier, plus full screen is crazy, just like a movie

Be-Jammin · 05-01-2003, 06:52 AM

Glad to see everything came together for you. You could set the current limiter to unlimited and this will help extremely with acceleration, but you don't seem to have a problem in that department. Plus if you keep the limiter at 60 amps you will more than likely never thermal. With high cell counts on the pede you could possibly see amp spikes up to 90 amps, which is withing the controllers specs.

As for you cogging...where do you have you receiver mounted? Where is your antenna, is it an internal one? Post up a pic and I might be able to provide some suggestions.m But a rx pack should definitely solve your problem. Ballistic Batteries makes a killer one with an in-line switch, so you don't have to unplug it everytime.

I should have my Novak System here by late May early June, I will give everybody a comparison to the Hacker set-up.

B

xtekcore · 05-01-2003, 08:06 AM

Yeah ive heard alot about Needing a Hacker Car Sport to run in cars, why dont I just get a foward only ESC even if I dont give a rats about reverse? Their cheaper, and besides schulze makes some NICE esc's. Anyways, glad to hear that about your pede Swami, im just not sure if the C40's could haul my maxx, it seems ill have to stick with B50's or a C40 L series.

xtekcore, rad your PM's.

Mis'

Swami · 05-01-2003, 08:27 AM

they do make torquier motors.

However, the C40, in an E-Maxx, would completely embarrass any brushed Emaxx setup.

I am guessing here, don't own an E-maxx. But the 10-cell power was INSANE. With the E-Maxx, you'd be using TWELVE! Like I said. Ludicrious speed.

Hacker has a special 14.4v motor for the E-Maxx anyhows.

If I do get an E-Maxx someday, I wouldn't hesitiate to use the motor I have now.

Later,
Swami

xtekcore · 05-01-2003, 08:35 AM

Yup they made the C50 special for the maxx, but its quite a ripoff. See im here in Canada, and all the C50 is, is a B50 10S, in a different can.

C50 = $329.99
B50 S Series = $217.99

Big difference, same power. I know the C40's have some crazy punch after watching Be-Jammins videos, but im positive the B50 12s, with a lower RPM/v and a longer armature would prove more useful, and if I really needed more speed I would just run 14 cells. I cannot see how your running a 10 cell brushless setup and not DESTROYING that transmission. My half dead Magnetic Mayhem on a bad 6 cell pack ate metal idlers, id be VERY careful

Swami · 05-01-2003, 09:39 AM

I am being super careful. Like I said, I forgot to loosen my slipper clutch!

Well, I've got it loosend for a lunchtime 8-cell run today. Im running stock output yokes on my Pede, and all is well so far. Granted I've done two runs! lol

There is a lot more junk on my R/C now! I have two big switches mounted beside where the ESC goes. I have a four-cell AA pack above the transmission, and a bunch of wire. Its kinda crazy looking to me. There is not a lot of room on the Pede for extra stuff!

I've got the receiver mounted in the usual place behind the front servo. The ESC is in the usual place in front of the rear shock tower. I've got an FM Airtronics MX-3. Im not understanding how there could be a problem with that. Its never glitched on me at all.

I will try to get some pictures up soon.

Later,
Swami

meatmonkey · 05-01-2003, 09:42 AM

I don't know much about BL. But in the unlikely event that I could afford it, what other esc would you advise Swami? Where did you purchase it? Where can I find more information on BL motors, especially the Hacker's? And do I even want to know how much a good BL setup like yours will cost?

Swami · 05-01-2003, 11:26 AM

This Hacker setup was over $330.

I really can't imagine wanting to use more than 8-cells with this. There just isn't room to use it where I am at!! I was just scared of screwing the whole R/C up when I had 10-cells in there.

So with that in mind, I think the Novak is just awesome in terms of price, power, and ease of use. I don't own one now, but can infer some of its benefits havings hooked up a more "hobby level" BL. The novak's RPM/v rating is nearly the same as this hacker. How torque compares, I have no clue.

If I ever get a second one, it will definitely be Novak. They are $240.

Lehrer makes some inexpensive controllers. Only thing I don't like about them is that they don't really "look" like an ESC the way the hacker does. It looks more like a battery pack or something. You have to find a way to mount it.

Swami

Mirage · 05-01-2003, 11:34 AM

Awesome Swami, glad to know you got your problem fixed. As for the cogging goes, my frineds BL HPI MT coggs aswell, but only at low speed as u mentioned, and when the batteries begin to wearout, meaning drain.

When he runs his on 12 cells, well he never got it to full speed, its just to rediculous, and im sure that hacker system has more power than his lehner.

We are trying to get a video of it up this week, cause next week is finals, so we wont have time, and wont be bashing together all summer until next semester. So cross your fingers.

Looking forward to your videos Swami, im sure they will be sweet as usual.

777 · 05-01-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swami
I'll put together something more formatted for the BL FAQ soon.
Swami

Swami, when you do, please try to include why you chose the Hacker. Seeing as it's the most expensive out there, there must be a good reason.

Sounds great............actually almost too good, honestly. I mean, seeing as you can't use all of the power, would it be more reasonable to get something that makes less power? (Did I just say less power?)

Mirage · 05-01-2003, 01:17 PM

With a morr powerful system, u can grow with it, for example, he can use it in the emaxx in the future if he gets one, versus the novak system, or a novak basic that would require 2 systems and twice the batteries to get the maxx moving. It just gives you alot of growing room, just remember, these systems will most likely last longer than ur r/c, or a few r/c's!

t-maxximum · 05-01-2003, 01:28 PM

-"what was that"
-"it was spaceball 1, they have gone to plad"

is that what it was like.(sorry i don't know how to spell plad"

Powelly R/C · 05-01-2003, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greenboy
Heh, Id like to see "Wall of Death II: Hacker Attacker" or something to that effect

omg ive just pmed him, askeing for a wall of death 2 with brushless great minds think alike eh?

Swami · 05-01-2003, 02:56 PM

Well, like I said in the PM to Powelly, that would be just ASKING for some very expensive breakage. Not saying there will never be a Wall of Death II, but a cheaper brushed motor will work fine on that assignment! lol

Now at the track, thats a different story. This Hacker is going to totally dominate that track. I can't wait to see the looks on the dudes faces there. I'm taking the Pede first, since its kind of a misfit on the track, that should really attract some attention.

777, part of the reason I chose the Hacker was because I had seen it in action. I also wanted the controller that has an integrated heatsink (not like lehrer) and also the controller can fit in a variety of places very well. I just wish the BEC was better. It is a little intermittant, and I am going to call Hacker on it. It works great for a while, then suddenly, you don't have much steering. Then it will suddenly come back. Its like it just doesn't have enough current to move the wheels well.

Another reason I got the Hacker is because it was the most expensive. I sold a bunch of old R/C stuff I had, plus other things to offset the cost. I figure it must cost that much for some reason, and I have been burned MANY times in the past by "going cheap". This time I budgeted for a one time, huge expense.

And yes, I am seriously considering an E-Maxx at some point. 12 cells on this thing would be really, really awesome.

Big_Shanaenae · 05-01-2003, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swami
I just wish the BEC was better. It is a little intermittant, and I am going to call Hacker on it. It works great for a while, then suddenly, you don't have much steering. Then it will suddenly come back. Its like it just doesn't have enough current to move the wheels well.

The Lehner controllers have a BEC disable jumper. It could be (even with running a reciever pack) that your controller is still trying to play the BEC part, even though you had a RX pack hooked up to the reciever. IE: your controller doesn't know the RX pack was there.

Most brushless controllers that i've looked at have that feature, Especially on the 10+ cell controllers, and they also suggest not running a high-torque servo without the BEC disabled on the controller.

Does that give a little direction to your delimna?

Swami · 05-01-2003, 03:29 PM

Yes it does. I think the BEC just isn't up to the "high torque servo" that I have.

The Hacker is pretty simple in how you do or don't use the BEC. The controller has a switch. If you want BEC, switch it ON, if you don't switch it OFF. With the switch in the OFF position, the controller will still pickup signal from the RX as long as you have an RX pack.

I am using 4 AAs which is pretty heavy. Is there a lightweight alternative? I think having the RX pack go for three or four of the motor packs would be adequate for me, if that could save weight.

Swami

Big_Shanaenae · 05-01-2003, 03:33 PM

you couldn't make a custom 4-cell AAA pack, that would roughly 1/2 the weight. I think anything less wouldn't hold up very long under the current loads.

Swami · 05-01-2003, 03:38 PM

wow, I don't know why I didn't think of that. I have plenty of AAA rechargables already. 800mah I think.

I was looking at these semi-exotic 3/4A sized packs. Cheapest ones are about $28 on www.ballisticbatteries.com

Thanks for the tip.
Swami

777 · 05-01-2003, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swami

777, part of the reason I chose the Hacker was because I had seen it in action. I also wanted the controller that has an integrated heatsink (not like lehrer) and also the controller can fit in a variety of places very well.

Thanks for that answer. Now help me out, what's an "integrated heatsink"? And you mention that the controller can fit in a variety of places. Is that not the case with the Lehrer?

Honestly, now I'm looking forward to you getting the Novak for a little side-by-side comparo. That could be extremely informative. BTW, why not the Lehrer for your next system?

Big_Shanaenae · 05-01-2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 777
Thanks for that answer. Now help me out, what's an "integrated heatsink"? And you mention that the controller can fit in a variety of places. Is that not the case with the Lehrer?

Honestly, now I'm looking forward to you getting the Novak for a little side-by-side comparo. That could be extremely informative. BTW, why not the Lehrer for your next system?

Already installed not as an afterthought, add-on.

Lehners are cheaper priced to start, but you have to pay extra for accessories such as a heat sink

Swami · 05-01-2003, 06:23 PM

Actually its Be-Jammin that is getting Novak. He will have the awesome position of comparing TWO BL systems.

Here is a picture of a Lehrer system.

See what a crazy shape that controller is for an R/C truck? People come up with all kinds of custom mounts for that.

Swami

BeeniDAmeeni · 05-01-2003, 06:28 PM

I know the last thing this thread needs is more questions, but why not a stupid question(or am I a stupid person-check my sig-)
But, is it Lehner, or Lehrer? I've seen it spelled diferrently by two very knowledgeable people, so I don't know what to think.

Thanks!

777 · 05-01-2003, 06:30 PM

Thanks, Big_Shanaenae! With all the pictures & links, that was above & beyond! Much appreciated!

So then I guess that you have to add a heatsink to the Lehrer? Are the Lehrers a weird fit in the chassis or something? Judging from the pictures on those links that you supplied, they sure don't appear like normal ESCs.

t-maxximum · 05-01-2003, 06:42 PM

I think Lehner look herehttp://www.misbehavin-rc.com/links/l...stributors.asp

Swami · 05-01-2003, 08:01 PM

note: I always misspell Lehner

Swami

forevernoob · 05-01-2003, 08:03 PM

well while we are on the topic of spaceballs...

my favorite quote:

"Sir, they are jamming the radar."
"How?!?"
"It appears to be raspberry, sir."

or at least i think thats it, it has been awhile since i have seen the movie

but anyway, i was thinkin about goin brushless, then i realized i can get more than enough power to satisfy me for less than half the price of the novak

associated icp(12t limit) + speed gems pro kobal = a lot of fun for a 15 year old witout a job

**sorry, i made the correction wit the quote**

t-maxximum · 05-01-2003, 08:05 PM

It is rassberry

Big_Shanaenae · 05-01-2003, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 777
Judging from the pictures on those links that you supplied, they sure don't appear like normal ESCs.

They're flat to save space in Airplanes and Boats. The long-flat design doesn't work very well in the Stampede though (at least from the pictures i've seen).

They're also flat to accomidate effective watercooling. Rather than having heatsinks, they have a big copper plate in the controller. But that design isn't exactly accomidating for R/C cars and Trucks.

BeeniDAmeeni · 05-01-2003, 08:33 PM

Yeah, since were on the topic Spaceballs

Anyway, the flat design looks like it could kill the Pede.

Big_Shanaenae · 05-01-2003, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeeniDAmeeni
Yeah, since were on the topic Spaceballs

What's the matter Col. Sanders?......Chicken?

Swami · 05-02-2003, 12:11 PM

Hey,

I made a little page for the Hacker Install. Its got a lot of closeup pics and such.

I've been changing some things around on the website. Mostly just cleaning up the look of things.

Swami

t-maxximum · 05-02-2003, 12:17 PM

that is so pretty, i wish i had money for that, but i am saving up for a 1/8 scale buggy.

BeeniDAmeeni · 05-02-2003, 02:17 PM

Heh, Swami's got a "pretty Pede"....

Looks nice, like what you changed about the site.

t-maxximum · 05-02-2003, 02:24 PM

the brushless not the pede

The-8 · 05-02-2003, 03:07 PM

I expect you will be breaking your output yokes soon. I just broke mine using it as a replacement for a cvd i broke too(looked kinda funny half CVD and half stock). It took me about 10-15 runs to do it though, i guess we'll see.

I am running the lehner system and as far as mounting, i just stuck the controller to the back of the rear shock tower. Now that i've switched to the rustler chassis, in hopes of reducing barrel rolls, motor and controller are getting quite hot. I think i got something in the motor or bearings..

Another thing, Swami, when you ran the rusty chassis did you use a high-torque servo? And did it squeak/grind when you turned? Im using the hitec 645 mg servo.

BruteSparkfist · 05-02-2003, 04:21 PM

The lehner controllers have no heatsink?

well when I bought my Lehner 5300 and warior 7018 the esc came with a built in heatsink from www.maximizerproducts.com

Swami: that'd be interesting to see what the guys are your track think of your setup.

Swami · 05-02-2003, 05:08 PM

I did go to the track today. Luckily almost noone was there, because this thing was downright embarressing. You can't imagine a worse misfit on the track.

1) Crud shocks
2) Extremely heavy (Alum Brace + Wheeliebar + 10-cells)
3) High Center of Gravity.
4) Body that won't stay on for more than 30 seconds.
5) About fifty times too much power.

It was so bad. Completely, completely uncontrollable. Sick. I could only run it about 30 seconds at a time before it would freak out. The body is so mangled (PurpleSpash), it doesn't really have body holes anymore. It just has huge cracks. I bought some foam and plastic discs, as well as some super buff pins. I'll be using them on some other body to try and prevent the same kind of disaster.

My RX pack lasted all of 5 SECONDS. On the first jump, the truck throttled up unmercilessly, and landed straight on its butt, breaking the RX pack off, and sending the batts flying. I was able to limp along with the BEC for the next hour.

I lost every body pin I had. I wound up wrapping the WHOLE TRUCK in tape in an attempt to keep the body on, it was SO LAME!!! I was laughing at myself.

Now for the good stuff.
I had major insane wheelies down the straights. And on the big jump, I was able to get SEVERAL complete backflips!

The truck was not happy with me for the failed attempts though!

I beat the SNOT out of the truck today on that track. Imagine landing on your back from 10 feet in the air with a SUPER overweight truck. I can't believe it broke NOTHING on the truck except a zip-tie.

Wait, I forgot. I stripped a yoke before I even really started. That was damage from the torque though. I didn't get any damage from all the numerous poor landings.

Beeni > After you see these pictures you won't think its pretty. You'll see it for the ghetto'd up monstrousity that it is!!

The-8 > I am having some fun with the Pede, but I am wondering how long I can resist putting it in my Rusty which has a tiny prayer of being controllable at least!!

Video? Oh yeah.

Swami

t-maxximum · 05-02-2003, 05:41 PM

that would anoy the heck outta me